Our encounter with Das Racist was one of the more noteworthy experiences of CMJ '09, so I thought I'd reach out to Victor Vazquez and Himanshu Suri* and try to get behind the wall of booty bass and Taco Bell that obscures two of the hardest working minds on hip-hop's fringes.
In cross-country Gmail and Gchat correspondence spanning a little over a week, we covered all the bases and then some. The product is an inquisition about the utility of writing in Gmail, whether or not music fans have developed a taste for fancy degrees, Amherst's fakest music scene and, obviously, health care. They were alternately earnest and cynical, terse and expansive, but never censored. I played the probing music journalist. They were Das Racist.
*For the record (I learned this at my own peril), the one with the
long hair is Victor, a.k.a. Kool AD, and the one with the short hair is
Himanshu. Stop being so racist.
A Thousand Grams: First the basics: How did you two meet? What were your majors at Wesleyan?
Victor: I was Hima's Residential Advisor at a dorm whose mission statement concerned "social justice" and "people of color." I was an English major.
Himanshu: I officially majored in Economics though I took more classes related to South Asia than what was required for my Economics degree. The classes spanned across English, Art History, History, Economics and Cinema. Many of them were at the School of Oriental and African studies in the UK.
ATG: What made you want to start a rap duo? How did you get your "break?" Or are you still waiting for it?
V: We liked each other's raps and then we rapped together. We are still waiting for our "break."
H: A big break would be great right about now.
ATG: Do you really know the guys from MGMT, or is that just a 'hey, they went to the same school!' kind of deal?
V: Yeah, we know them.
ATG: There's a lot that can be said (and has) about your lyrical content, but I'm wondering first about your delivery. It almost feels like the former is a bi-product of the latter. You have a very stream of consciousness flow that's like freestyling, but maybe not quite. Is that a post-Jay "one take" kind of thing? Or are you on like a Kerouac / purity of the free-verse tip?
V: I write in gmails and read it off of somebody's laptop or blackberry. I'm not as good at rapping as Jay-Z is. I dig Allen Ginsberg's "first thought, best thought" idea.
H: I write everything in gmail as well and pretty much never write to the beat in question so how we go about cadence and what not is pretty much improvised. In terms of stream of consciousness stuff I do and/or did listen to a lot of Ghostface and Vordul Megallah from Cann Ox. I'd toss Gerard Manley Hopkins in there as an influence as well?
ATG: So why do you guys like to do everything in Gmail, anyway?
H: A lot of reasons. For one, it's just efficient for us, whether it's writing the actual rhymes and talking about them or communicating about the non-creative aspects of being in a band. I'd say a lot of it comes from the fact I used to be in an office 8+ hours a day and Vic would be at his other band's practice so it was just convenient. Plus, I'm not going to spit verses to dude on the phone. Interview-wise e-mail q + a's work better for us because it's more difficult to misconstrue what someone is saying, especially when its about a somewhat nuanced thing like our music?, when it's coming directly from them as opposed to writers picking and choosing from a voice recorder. Finally, it's 2009 and we're very much of the internet generation. "Peep us at the grammy's we'd like to thank G Chat".
V: Yeah, basically what Hima said. I also dig email cause I'm kind of ADD and can take breaks to watch Youtube. Namely the Watagatapitusbery video. I would say I watched that video seven or eight times over the course of this interview. Can't do that in "real" life.
ATG: The vibe you get from your music is a very laid back, kind of party-and-bullshit sensibility. But at the same time, there's obviously a very social/cultural/political subtext to a lot of it. I'm wondering how that stems from your creative process. Do you labor a lot over your songs and persona? Or do you just do and say what comes naturally?
V: We read books and we also kick it. Sometimes we record raps when we're kicking it.
ATG: Who would you say are your biggest influences? (Both inside of rap and out)
Victor: In no particular order: Jean-Michel Basquiat, Prince, Kool Keith, Aime Cesaire, James Baldwin, MF Doom, Charles Bukowski, Tino Seghal, Mai Ueda, Richard Wright, Ralph Ellison, Andy Warhol, Keith Haring, Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman, Malcolm X, Captain Beefheart, Guillermo Gomez-Pena, Coco Fusco, bell hooks, Walter Benjamin, Theodor Adorno, Frantz Fanon, Edward Said, Michel Foucault, Andre 3000, M.I.A., Public Enemy, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Jay-Z, Ghostface Killah, Cam'ron, E-40, Raekwon, RZA, GZA, Big Pun, De La Soul, Beastie Boys, Rappin 4-Tay, Luniz, The Coup, Poison Clan, Egyptian Lover, Biz Markie, Gucci Mane, OJ Da Juiceman, Saul Williams, Rammellzee, Nina Simone, Bob Dylan, Boredoms, Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, The Stooges, The Ramones, The Germs, Flipper, Devo, Talking Heads, Charles Mingus, Curtis Mayfield, Sly Stone, Stevie Wonder, Shuggie Otis, Suicide, Big Audio Dynamite, Harry Gamboa Jr., Spike Lee, Charles Burnett, Werner Herzog, Werner Fassbinder, Animal Collective, Leif (n.k.a. Aries Noise), Gordon Voidwell, MGMT, Das Racist, Boy Crisis, my sisters, my parents, Jordan Fish, Ray Tintori, Bob Weisz, Kate Ferencz, chemicals, sex, food.
Himanshu: Diaspora, Google/Gchat/Gmail, The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, YouTube.com, Guru Dutt, The Ghadar Party, Siona Benjamin, Richard Hell, MF Husain, MF Doom/KMD, Ghostface/Wu, Cam'ron/Dipset, Noreaga/CNN, Marquee Moon by Television, The Stone Roses (self-titled), Mughal miniature paintings, DAP, Jean-Michel Basquiat, Andy Warhol, Bhagat Singh, Marcus Garvey, Udham Singh, Chandrasekhar Azad, Tipu Sultan, The Karma of Brown Folk, Junot Diaz, Karma of Brown Folk by Vijay Prashad, The Lonely Londoners by Sam Selvon, Indira Karamcheti, Orientalism, Salman Rushdie, Immanuel Wallerstein, Paul's Boutique by Beastie Boys, Mangoes, The Mahabharata, Please Kill Me: An Oral History of Punk, Dapper Dan, Dave Chapelle, Paul Mooney, New Delhi, Airplanes, New York, New York before I was born, Goodness Gracious Me, Animal Collective, Leif, Gordon Voidwell, MGMT, Das Racist, Boy Crisis, my sister, my parents, Jordan Fish, Ray Tintori, Bob Weisz, Kate Ferencz, chemicals, sex, food.
Das Racist - "Pizza Hut and Taco Bell"
ATG: I know that you guys are big media consumers. If you could be any of the talking heads on cable news, which one would it be?
V: On a more public funded tip, I would want to be something like Tavis Smiley meets Bill Moyers. With bling on.
H: I'm not sure who I would be although I will say I was legitimately upset when Tim Russert passed last year and am a huge fan of Ernie Anastos.
ATG: There seems to be a definite trend going on with the Ivies and little Ivies on the East coast. Over the past year or two alone you've got Vampire Weekend, Chromeo, MGMT, Kidz in the Hall, Dirty Projectors, Chester French, and now you guys. Three part question: a. Do you at all want to be associated with any of those people? b. Why do you think we're turning to the brains for our pop music? c. How long until Amherst saves death metal?
V:
a. I guess we should probably confess that we write most of Chester French's material.
b. I'm not even sure if there are statistics that reflect that there are more college graduates performing in the music industry now than there were before but I guess it doesn't seem untrue. That said, I don't know if it would wholly be about a conscious decision on the part of audiences to "turn to the brains," so much as it might have to do with a general increase in college attendance over the years and maybe a tendency of college educated record label A&R types to feel more comfortable socializing with college educated musicians. The whole music industry feels pretty scene-y, everyone seems to know each other, everyone is trying to put on their friends, it seems like a vast network of elitism and nepotism, like any other industry probably.
c. The Amherst Death Metal Scene (ADMS) is already flourishing with bands like Seitan's Children and Cradle of Buddhism Studies.
H:
a) I don't associate with any of them except Chester French and it's not just that we write their material. According to their Wikipedia page one of them made a joke about being in whiteface all of the time. We make similar jokes all of the time. We hope to play a show in all white face or at least klansmen robes.
b) I don't know if there's even an association with brains and college. I'd argue it's more about money and connections. At the end of the day, as my boy Gordon Voidwell says, the white man get paid off of all of that.
c) The whole ADMS scene is riding on Evil Innards. Seitan's Children and Cradle of Buddhism Studies won't make it big unless Evil Innards do.
ATG: What are your thoughts on celebrity activism? I get the sense that you guys are primarily just creatives, but a few more witty allusions to the perils of consumerism and someone's going to ask you about health care; and then you're going to have to forcefully sodomize them John Mayer style.
V: There are worse things than celebrity activism. And for real, more money per person is spent on heath care in the United States than in any other nation in the world yet we have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the industrialized world and one of the lowest life expectancy rates in the industrialized world. 15% of Americans are uninsured (myself included) and many more are underinsured, making us the industrialized nation with the worst medical coverage in the world. Medical debt is the principal cause of personal bankruptcy in America. Health care facilities and health insurance companies are mostly private in the states and these companies have little oversight or accountability to anyone but their stockholders. It's a huge industry that employs a significant chunk of the nation, so it's obviously a huge task to try to reform it but on the real, billions of dollars are spent even just on a lot of relatively needless pharmaceutical development (stuff for weight loss, anxiety, balding) and marketing (not just those ambient and zoloft commercials that are always on TV but serious shit like medical journal payola and the wining and dining of doctors in order to increase prescriptions or favorable reports on various drugs), I've heard stories of FDA-approved drugs taken at their prescribed dosages killing people because they were rushed into production with insufficient testing. End of the day, capital incentives simply don't always line up with certain basic concepts of morality.
H: If it raises awareness for a reasonable cause that previously wouldn't have gotten that attention there's no reason to hate. Even if the celebrity isn't some kind of expert on the topic or doesn't have the necessary cultural credentials to speak on it it's probably a good thing for the fact that raising awareness raises the potential for change.
ATG: What are your goals in the music biz? At your show you kept talking about how grateful you were to be playing Madison Square Garden. Funny stuff, but I wonder if you envision yourselves playing there. Are you the next Drake?
V: We're the first us. Or the next Wale.
H: We're the first us. Or the next EPMD.
ATG: I really like your production, but I don't think I recognize any of your producers. Who are those guys?
Victor: They're nice folks. Leif (now Aries Noise) is working on the new Spank Rock album, J-La used to DJ for Rye-Rye. Like Magic is in a fairly popular band but chooses to remain anonymous for the time being. We're working on a remix of The Very Best with Daniel Lynas from the Unusuals and we're collaborating with the British producer Aspirins too. We've been in contact with Prince Paul, which will hopefully pan out because that dude's the man. And the idea of getting on a Large Professor beat was mentioned but I don't know what's up with that lately.
Himanshu: We did a joint with Tanlines recently who'll have a record out on True Panther. We also are working on a collaboration with Bonde Do Role out of Brazil. Guillermo Brown and Kassa Overall who play in Gordon Voidwell and are insanely talented jazz instrumentalists who have also contributed tracks. Beyond this we're always collaborating with folks and building.
ATG: What musicians do you most want to collaborate with?
V: Egyptian Lover, MIA, Santigold, MF Doom, Swizz Beatz
H: Swizz Beatz, MF Doom, Ghostface, MIA, Gyptian
ATG: Before coming to see you, I had read about you guys in the Village Voice, New York Magazine and even The New York Times. That's pretty fuckin' impressive for a myspace page and an Internet single. How did that happen?
H: We're ethnically ambiguous and studies have shown that appeals to various demographics in this day and age.
ATG: What does the media get wrong about you?
V: Which one is Victor and which one is Himanshu. They're also often confused by the presence of our hype man Dap, who they usually refer to as a third rapper who doesn't rap. They also sometimes mistake him for one of us.
H: Everything. We're so misunderstood.
ATG: Finally, are you in talks to sign anywhere? Is there an album or a mixtape in the works? What's next for Das Racist?
V: We've had some interest and a couple of offers but we need to sort out some legal stuff first. We have a lot of songs we were thinking of going back into for an album but we've also been discussing releasing them as is as a mixtape first.
H: Next for Das Racist is probably emailing each other tomorrow, maybe goin to grab some Chinese food, heading to a bar to drink with some friends, playing obscure rap videos to each other on Youtube and basically just things like that.
A Thousand Grams: First the basics: How did you two meet? What were your majors at Wesleyan?
Victor: I was Hima's Residential Advisor at a dorm whose mission statement concerned "social justice" and "people of color." I was an English major.
Himanshu: I officially majored in Economics though I took more classes related to South Asia than what was required for my Economics degree. The classes spanned across English, Art History, History, Economics and Cinema. Many of them were at the School of Oriental and African studies in the UK.
ATG: What made you want to start a rap duo? How did you get your "break?" Or are you still waiting for it?
V: We liked each other's raps and then we rapped together. We are still waiting for our "break."
H: A big break would be great right about now.
ATG: Do you really know the guys from MGMT, or is that just a 'hey, they went to the same school!' kind of deal?
V: Yeah, we know them.
ATG: There's a lot that can be said (and has) about your lyrical content, but I'm wondering first about your delivery. It almost feels like the former is a bi-product of the latter. You have a very stream of consciousness flow that's like freestyling, but maybe not quite. Is that a post-Jay "one take" kind of thing? Or are you on like a Kerouac / purity of the free-verse tip?
V: I write in gmails and read it off of somebody's laptop or blackberry. I'm not as good at rapping as Jay-Z is. I dig Allen Ginsberg's "first thought, best thought" idea.
H: I write everything in gmail as well and pretty much never write to the beat in question so how we go about cadence and what not is pretty much improvised. In terms of stream of consciousness stuff I do and/or did listen to a lot of Ghostface and Vordul Megallah from Cann Ox. I'd toss Gerard Manley Hopkins in there as an influence as well?
ATG: So why do you guys like to do everything in Gmail, anyway?
H: A lot of reasons. For one, it's just efficient for us, whether it's writing the actual rhymes and talking about them or communicating about the non-creative aspects of being in a band. I'd say a lot of it comes from the fact I used to be in an office 8+ hours a day and Vic would be at his other band's practice so it was just convenient. Plus, I'm not going to spit verses to dude on the phone. Interview-wise e-mail q + a's work better for us because it's more difficult to misconstrue what someone is saying, especially when its about a somewhat nuanced thing like our music?, when it's coming directly from them as opposed to writers picking and choosing from a voice recorder. Finally, it's 2009 and we're very much of the internet generation. "Peep us at the grammy's we'd like to thank G Chat".
V: Yeah, basically what Hima said. I also dig email cause I'm kind of ADD and can take breaks to watch Youtube. Namely the Watagatapitusbery video. I would say I watched that video seven or eight times over the course of this interview. Can't do that in "real" life.
ATG: The vibe you get from your music is a very laid back, kind of party-and-bullshit sensibility. But at the same time, there's obviously a very social/cultural/political subtext to a lot of it. I'm wondering how that stems from your creative process. Do you labor a lot over your songs and persona? Or do you just do and say what comes naturally?
V: We read books and we also kick it. Sometimes we record raps when we're kicking it.
ATG: Who would you say are your biggest influences? (Both inside of rap and out)
Victor: In no particular order: Jean-Michel Basquiat, Prince, Kool Keith, Aime Cesaire, James Baldwin, MF Doom, Charles Bukowski, Tino Seghal, Mai Ueda, Richard Wright, Ralph Ellison, Andy Warhol, Keith Haring, Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman, Malcolm X, Captain Beefheart, Guillermo Gomez-Pena, Coco Fusco, bell hooks, Walter Benjamin, Theodor Adorno, Frantz Fanon, Edward Said, Michel Foucault, Andre 3000, M.I.A., Public Enemy, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Jay-Z, Ghostface Killah, Cam'ron, E-40, Raekwon, RZA, GZA, Big Pun, De La Soul, Beastie Boys, Rappin 4-Tay, Luniz, The Coup, Poison Clan, Egyptian Lover, Biz Markie, Gucci Mane, OJ Da Juiceman, Saul Williams, Rammellzee, Nina Simone, Bob Dylan, Boredoms, Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, The Stooges, The Ramones, The Germs, Flipper, Devo, Talking Heads, Charles Mingus, Curtis Mayfield, Sly Stone, Stevie Wonder, Shuggie Otis, Suicide, Big Audio Dynamite, Harry Gamboa Jr., Spike Lee, Charles Burnett, Werner Herzog, Werner Fassbinder, Animal Collective, Leif (n.k.a. Aries Noise), Gordon Voidwell, MGMT, Das Racist, Boy Crisis, my sisters, my parents, Jordan Fish, Ray Tintori, Bob Weisz, Kate Ferencz, chemicals, sex, food.
Himanshu: Diaspora, Google/Gchat/Gmail, The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, YouTube.com, Guru Dutt, The Ghadar Party, Siona Benjamin, Richard Hell, MF Husain, MF Doom/KMD, Ghostface/Wu, Cam'ron/Dipset, Noreaga/CNN, Marquee Moon by Television, The Stone Roses (self-titled), Mughal miniature paintings, DAP, Jean-Michel Basquiat, Andy Warhol, Bhagat Singh, Marcus Garvey, Udham Singh, Chandrasekhar Azad, Tipu Sultan, The Karma of Brown Folk, Junot Diaz, Karma of Brown Folk by Vijay Prashad, The Lonely Londoners by Sam Selvon, Indira Karamcheti, Orientalism, Salman Rushdie, Immanuel Wallerstein, Paul's Boutique by Beastie Boys, Mangoes, The Mahabharata, Please Kill Me: An Oral History of Punk, Dapper Dan, Dave Chapelle, Paul Mooney, New Delhi, Airplanes, New York, New York before I was born, Goodness Gracious Me, Animal Collective, Leif, Gordon Voidwell, MGMT, Das Racist, Boy Crisis, my sister, my parents, Jordan Fish, Ray Tintori, Bob Weisz, Kate Ferencz, chemicals, sex, food.
Das Racist - "Pizza Hut and Taco Bell"
ATG: I know that you guys are big media consumers. If you could be any of the talking heads on cable news, which one would it be?
V: On a more public funded tip, I would want to be something like Tavis Smiley meets Bill Moyers. With bling on.
H: I'm not sure who I would be although I will say I was legitimately upset when Tim Russert passed last year and am a huge fan of Ernie Anastos.
ATG: There seems to be a definite trend going on with the Ivies and little Ivies on the East coast. Over the past year or two alone you've got Vampire Weekend, Chromeo, MGMT, Kidz in the Hall, Dirty Projectors, Chester French, and now you guys. Three part question: a. Do you at all want to be associated with any of those people? b. Why do you think we're turning to the brains for our pop music? c. How long until Amherst saves death metal?
V:
a. I guess we should probably confess that we write most of Chester French's material.
b. I'm not even sure if there are statistics that reflect that there are more college graduates performing in the music industry now than there were before but I guess it doesn't seem untrue. That said, I don't know if it would wholly be about a conscious decision on the part of audiences to "turn to the brains," so much as it might have to do with a general increase in college attendance over the years and maybe a tendency of college educated record label A&R types to feel more comfortable socializing with college educated musicians. The whole music industry feels pretty scene-y, everyone seems to know each other, everyone is trying to put on their friends, it seems like a vast network of elitism and nepotism, like any other industry probably.
c. The Amherst Death Metal Scene (ADMS) is already flourishing with bands like Seitan's Children and Cradle of Buddhism Studies.
H:
a) I don't associate with any of them except Chester French and it's not just that we write their material. According to their Wikipedia page one of them made a joke about being in whiteface all of the time. We make similar jokes all of the time. We hope to play a show in all white face or at least klansmen robes.
b) I don't know if there's even an association with brains and college. I'd argue it's more about money and connections. At the end of the day, as my boy Gordon Voidwell says, the white man get paid off of all of that.
c) The whole ADMS scene is riding on Evil Innards. Seitan's Children and Cradle of Buddhism Studies won't make it big unless Evil Innards do.
ATG: What are your thoughts on celebrity activism? I get the sense that you guys are primarily just creatives, but a few more witty allusions to the perils of consumerism and someone's going to ask you about health care; and then you're going to have to forcefully sodomize them John Mayer style.
V: There are worse things than celebrity activism. And for real, more money per person is spent on heath care in the United States than in any other nation in the world yet we have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the industrialized world and one of the lowest life expectancy rates in the industrialized world. 15% of Americans are uninsured (myself included) and many more are underinsured, making us the industrialized nation with the worst medical coverage in the world. Medical debt is the principal cause of personal bankruptcy in America. Health care facilities and health insurance companies are mostly private in the states and these companies have little oversight or accountability to anyone but their stockholders. It's a huge industry that employs a significant chunk of the nation, so it's obviously a huge task to try to reform it but on the real, billions of dollars are spent even just on a lot of relatively needless pharmaceutical development (stuff for weight loss, anxiety, balding) and marketing (not just those ambient and zoloft commercials that are always on TV but serious shit like medical journal payola and the wining and dining of doctors in order to increase prescriptions or favorable reports on various drugs), I've heard stories of FDA-approved drugs taken at their prescribed dosages killing people because they were rushed into production with insufficient testing. End of the day, capital incentives simply don't always line up with certain basic concepts of morality.
H: If it raises awareness for a reasonable cause that previously wouldn't have gotten that attention there's no reason to hate. Even if the celebrity isn't some kind of expert on the topic or doesn't have the necessary cultural credentials to speak on it it's probably a good thing for the fact that raising awareness raises the potential for change.
ATG: What are your goals in the music biz? At your show you kept talking about how grateful you were to be playing Madison Square Garden. Funny stuff, but I wonder if you envision yourselves playing there. Are you the next Drake?
V: We're the first us. Or the next Wale.
H: We're the first us. Or the next EPMD.
ATG: I really like your production, but I don't think I recognize any of your producers. Who are those guys?
Victor: They're nice folks. Leif (now Aries Noise) is working on the new Spank Rock album, J-La used to DJ for Rye-Rye. Like Magic is in a fairly popular band but chooses to remain anonymous for the time being. We're working on a remix of The Very Best with Daniel Lynas from the Unusuals and we're collaborating with the British producer Aspirins too. We've been in contact with Prince Paul, which will hopefully pan out because that dude's the man. And the idea of getting on a Large Professor beat was mentioned but I don't know what's up with that lately.
Himanshu: We did a joint with Tanlines recently who'll have a record out on True Panther. We also are working on a collaboration with Bonde Do Role out of Brazil. Guillermo Brown and Kassa Overall who play in Gordon Voidwell and are insanely talented jazz instrumentalists who have also contributed tracks. Beyond this we're always collaborating with folks and building.
ATG: What musicians do you most want to collaborate with?
V: Egyptian Lover, MIA, Santigold, MF Doom, Swizz Beatz
H: Swizz Beatz, MF Doom, Ghostface, MIA, Gyptian
ATG: Before coming to see you, I had read about you guys in the Village Voice, New York Magazine and even The New York Times. That's pretty fuckin' impressive for a myspace page and an Internet single. How did that happen?
H: We're ethnically ambiguous and studies have shown that appeals to various demographics in this day and age.
ATG: What does the media get wrong about you?
V: Which one is Victor and which one is Himanshu. They're also often confused by the presence of our hype man Dap, who they usually refer to as a third rapper who doesn't rap. They also sometimes mistake him for one of us.
H: Everything. We're so misunderstood.
ATG: Finally, are you in talks to sign anywhere? Is there an album or a mixtape in the works? What's next for Das Racist?
V: We've had some interest and a couple of offers but we need to sort out some legal stuff first. We have a lot of songs we were thinking of going back into for an album but we've also been discussing releasing them as is as a mixtape first.
H: Next for Das Racist is probably emailing each other tomorrow, maybe goin to grab some Chinese food, heading to a bar to drink with some friends, playing obscure rap videos to each other on Youtube and basically just things like that.
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